Author Topic: Manson on American McGee's Alice  (Read 65356 times)

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Offline AVirusConspires

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Manson on American McGee's Alice
« on: May 05, 2007, 04:22:21 PM »
I think we all know what was said, but I'll post it anyway:
"I felt the music was too precious to give away for what they were offering. It wasnít really a situation where I wanted more money, I just didnít feel that it should be cheapened in the way that they were asking. Unfortunately this was so far into the whole process that my indelible stamp of the alchemical symbols and the Mad Hatter was actually fashioned after me, or even more so my grandfather. My mark is layed upon it, but not credited and Iím completely fine with that because I didnít find it to be something that is similar in any way to how I look at Alice in Wonderland. It wasnít really anything that accomplished what it should have. It was far too wishy-washy. It wasnít brave enough to be very violent and it wasnít soft enough to be for kids, so it left itself in a mediocre middle. Thatís not to say that itís the creatorís fault, itís just to say that is what happens when you donít have the courage to stand up for what youíre making." - Marilyn Manson
What do you guys think of this?  Speaking as someone who listened to a lot of Manson in junior high and high school, I feel he is full of crap.  I still love Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals, really anything before Holy Wood was good.  Holy Wood was a textbook example of mediocre, a display that told me Manson was no longer trying to be creative and resting on his laurels, suddenly talking about how his music was "Art" nonstop, the pretentious side of him taking over full force, becoming just another crappy nu metal artist.  I can't stand Manson now... all of his new songs sound like Ozzy, trying to be scary when people are over the shock.  And he calls Alice mediocre?  At least Alice was doing something different.  Alice was art, Manson is self-indulgent crap.
Thats just my opinion anyway, anybody else got one?

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2007, 04:45:32 PM »
he's bullshit.

i like some of his music, but none of it is sincere, because it's all for money.

Offline Lilith70

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2007, 06:42:22 PM »
Manson has always struck me as "Art School Emo Geek Stumbles Into Fame".  He's early emergence as an "artist" was all about shock and not really about expression - which misses the point of "art" at all, in my opinion.

I took his statement to be a lot of sour grapes and bullshit.  It's easy to say "That's mine" after the fact, but in reality, alchemical symbols and gore-goth stylings are nothing new.  I got to see American's evolution myself back in high school, and I would have probably been a lot more surprised at there NOT being these elements in the game, completely outside of any alleged "Manson" influence during his early career.
Yes, I'm the admin.  Hurting you is the last thing I want to do... but it's still on the list.

I write regularly.

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2007, 06:49:38 PM »
lilith takes the cake.

exactly.

i'd like to hear your thoughts on phantasmagoria, lil.

(:


Offline AVirusConspires

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2007, 07:55:41 PM »
True dat.  Manson has always been somewhat of a hack.  Even his early career, which I liked, ripped off David Bowie and Trent Reznor to no end.  He never gives his back up band any credit even though he couldnt play guitar to save his life... he really seems to refuse to acknowledge any creative force aside from his own, though everything he does that is even remotely creative has been done before.  And here's a funny note... Manson criticizes Alice for not being violent enough, when apparently Phantasmagoria itself is going to be more psychological than violent.  The hack is hacking again...

Offline tokixjam

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2007, 10:26:29 PM »
That was really retarded of him.

Offline Lokisdottir

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2007, 07:58:07 AM »
I think comparing alice and manson is kinda straying from the point. It's just his opinion.
It was petty tactless of him to just go out and say that about something that was someone else's creative vision, let alone something he was also semi-involved with.
But i do kind of agree in a small way, being that the whole idea of alice was definitely ahead of it's time (yes, even at 2000), but it just didn't feel err... complete. Maybe you could blame the techology for not doing it justice, or that it could have been ironed out more in it's final stages...
but whatever. It's an awesome game and concept. Nothings perfect.





except for ocarina of time......
OH GOD!

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2007, 08:01:02 AM »
I think comparing alice and manson is kinda straying from the point. It's just his opinion.
It was petty tactless of him to just go out and say that about something that was someone else's creative vision, let alone something he was also semi-involved with.
But i do kind of agree in a small way, being that the whole idea of alice was definitely ahead of it's time (yes, even at 2000), but it just didn't feel err... complete. Maybe you could blame the techology for not doing it justice, or that it could have been ironed out more in it's final stages...
but whatever. It's an awesome game and concept. Nothings perfect.





except for ocarina of time......
OH GOD!

the thread was about his quote saying that he didn't allow them to use the music he made for the game because he didn't feel he was receiving enough money.

i liked ocarina of time too :D

Vanilla H

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2007, 08:09:34 AM »
I think Manson is a turd.

Isn't my response mature?

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2007, 08:11:34 AM »
haha

sure, why not.

i think most of us agree with you, anyways.

Offline Lokisdottir

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2007, 08:12:28 AM »
Orite... suppose it depends which way you look at it.

But yeah, i liked american's response... which i'll paste for happy reading



"That's an interesting read. Yeah, Manson was involved early on with the score for the game. The work that he did was really cool. It had a very beautiful Beatles-in-their-harpsicord-and-Houkah-pipe-days sound to it. He mentions in the article that he felt the music was too precious to let go of. I recall there being more mundane issues regarding money and legal rights that stopped the deal from going forward. Maybe that was Manson's artistic way of communicating the importance of the music?

As for the alchemy symbols, he certainly had a hand in that. I seem to remember him either giving me a book or emailing me some information on symbology. For a while we talked about having him do the voice for the Mad Hatter in addition to the soundtrack. His part in my early thinking about the game was considerable. For that I'm thankful.

My experience with him "post-collaboration" was such that in-game credit was never considered. ButÖ I think I made a mention in my "thank you" file included with the game. Didn't I?

Anyway, nice to see he thinks it turned out so mediocre! Next time I'll be sure to have the card guards running around in crotch-less, ass-less pants and pissing on each other."

-American McGee

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2007, 08:14:39 AM »
i love american.

he makes me laugh.

Vanilla H

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2007, 08:23:31 AM »
American is super fantastic. Not many people can be both.

Manson is probably secretly jealous of American. Because no one likes Mason. He calls people posers for participating in Halloween - wtf?

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2007, 08:25:01 AM »
or it could be that american has something going for him, while all manson can do is play off of other people's crap.

how many of his most recent singles were covers?

Vanilla H

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2007, 08:28:14 AM »
Well, I wouldn't know...cause I don't listen to his music. I bet my sister would know. She likes Manson. *shudders*

I do know Manson covered Another Brick in the Wall (Part II)...so I've heard, anyways. Which is nasty. I love Pink Floyd. They're so talented, unlike Manson, who is a big douche.

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2007, 08:30:53 AM »
two of the singles from lest we forget (personal jesus, tainted love) were covers.

seriously.

how original.

that was released back in 2004.

i haven't heard his new album yet. i don't think it's been released.

he also covered sweet dreams in 1995.

he's been doing this crap for a while.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 08:34:32 AM by skurfergirl »

Offline erw0i

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2007, 08:34:27 AM »
Isn't he was the one who threw a cat into a giant fan so the blood and the guts spread all over the audience?

or it's just a hoax.  :-/

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2007, 08:35:08 AM »
it probably was a hoax.

i hadn't heard about that though.

peta would have been all over his ass.  :-\

Offline erw0i

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2007, 08:35:48 AM »
I'm going to kill my cousin  :ticked:

skurfergirl

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Re: Manson on American McGee's Alice
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2007, 08:37:06 AM »
lest we forget was supposed to be the band's farewell album, but eat me, drink me is coming out in june.

it's obviously an alice reference.

why do you want to kill your cousin?